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04-12-2011, 10:02 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Mormons are Christians. Granted they have added a lot of new stories to the Christian Canon, they are Christians nonetheless.

12-26-2010, 05:22 PM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Pretty sure it was the Romans who tacked him up on those boards

12-12-2010, 06:41 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Atheism is the rejection of the belief in a deity. It is the absence of faith. Have fairies, or any evidence of them, ever been found? No. Then as far we know, fairies do not exist. That seems pretty clear cut. If we find a fairy then we know they do exist. There is no leap of faith taken. Saying atheists have faith is like saying 'off' is a television channel.

And while the existence of a deity is improbable, that is not the reason I don't believe one exists. That would be a terrible argument. I feel if you are claiming something, the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. If I were to say that I had the power to fly, would it take faith to believe that such a thing was untrue? Would you ask for a demonstration before believing me? Or would you think, maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I guess we will never know since he won't prove it.

12-12-2010, 06:07 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

When and where was it recorded about this other garden?

12-09-2010, 05:29 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Hi Bill and welcome to the site! I look forward to seeing you around.

I must say that I disagree with the idea that Atheism is faith based. Saying that there is no God until you can prove there is one requires no faith at all. I also feel that atheism is the more scientific approach to the subject as well. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Until then, its not really recognized as being a theory or fact. Its just an idea.

Agnosticism has always seemed like a middle of the road place. Someone who doesn't want to commit to either side. At least that is what it was for me. When I called myself agnostic, I felt like it was a happy medium with my Christian upbringing (of which it was thought I would become a preacher) and realization that none of this makes much sense. I also think this has a lot to do with the individual connotation of the words and not so much the exact definitions.

But do answer your question, they are grouped to reduce clutter on the site and make it more appealing to the eye. We do recognize the difference between the two, but the similarities of the two are enough to merit grouping we thought. The same reason we don't have separate groupings for Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc. They are sub topics of their parent group.

Do you think they should be separated? We are always taking suggestions on how to improve the site.

12-05-2010, 04:22 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

I feel like this is a perfect example of why the Bible cannot be taken literally. Well put.

11-28-2010, 09:30 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

One more thing Matthew.

You said you agree with the video? Did you watch the video? They video is actually pointing out why the argument "the world would be terrible if atheist ruled" makes no sense and is laughable. The makers of the video are, infact, atheists.

11-28-2010, 09:21 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

I was asked by another member to list off events in the Bible that never happened.

Jonah was never swallowed by a fish. (I know the current story is whale. But the Bible says fish. I'm also aware that Biblical people didn't have a separate name for whales because they did not group them as a mammal and actually called them as fish like every other human being of that time. So it could in fact still be a whale in the story.) The story is more than likely a fable that uses the fear of isolation as a teaching tool or the exaggerated tale of a fisherman. Mariners have been telling fish tales as long as they have been around.

Noah's flood. This is pretty evident I feel. Any global flood would leave evidence. There is none. It is likely a story passed downed about one of the massive floods of the Tigris-Euphrates valley. Any massive flood there would seem like the whole world to anyone living there.

Noah likely did cross the Reed Sea when the Jews escaped from Egypt. And yes, I said Reed Sea, not Red Sea. Hebrew texts say he crossed the Reed Sea (we are still unsure of exactly what present day body of water this is. And that the water receded. More than likely the tide was going out. However, parting the Red Sea Charlton Heston style is a pure Hollywood fabrication.

There are many other stories that probably have some truth involved but it's not God punishing or helping people, it is just natural disasters or phenomenon.
Sun standing still and Sodom and Gamora are the ones that immediately come to mind.

Well hopefully this is enough to get this thread started. I think it's time I got some sleep.

11-28-2010, 08:55 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Matthew Wrote:
Do you believe that DNA can change in 100year lifespan?

Do you believe HIV goes away over time? It doesn’t, we would have the virus and be immune while having it,like monkeys.

Do you believe food can make a living organism grow something it didn’t have, such as a tail? Or time could do the same?

Why are we not seeing monkeys evolve today?

Are we any different than a cave man? Which I define as something not well groomed, so why think we evolved from anything? Humans are humans and nothing more.

Do you believe except for getting larger brains and getting smaller or bigger, that time can cause dramatic changes, and completely form a new animal in just a 100year life and that DNA can change just by days passing by?

God made everything in his image and made breeding possible among animals, but only if they are the same species.

Do you believe synthetic products just produced themselves on earth?

Do you believe in anything, besides just wanting to not believe in sin, and just get away with everything you want to do?

You see anything just forming on its own today, in mid air?

I believe in evolution in a sense that it means breeding, but only believe in the aspect that our brains get smaller or larger, and that we may get smaller or bigger due to environment and health reasons.

Animals with different virus’s don’t go away on its own, so we didn’t originate from any type of animal, cave man are people, just with more hair, or that a smaller brain.

Not to mention, animals are less intelligent, or they would repeat and learn language as us.

You would have to believe HIV is outside as a synthetic product, it’s not found anywhere.

If God wants to create something he will.

Living organisms were not the first to be produced, synthetic products were not here to analyze,and nither were people. Land was produced first.

Which brings me to ask, do you believe a rock or a piece of dirt is formed by itself that is not living at all?

Land was produced first since an organism cannot live if there is nowhere to live.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to have some common sense.

Where do you think elements came from, to produce a rock, or cause volcanic eruptions, you believe they were produced by synthetic products too (living organisms)

Who do you think made the sun, this entire world?

Even without high degree of science knowledge, can say that we can’t produce gasoline fuel by any product, who do you think made this? This made everything I said above true, and confirms that I disagree with a lot of views that people try to put across.

Why go off on tangent spells on something you haven’t looked into, that apparently disproves the tangent of not being a God.

You think water just invents itself, one of the many elements.

Faith should just be enough.

Atheist argue, because they want to be bad and not worry about sin, is the devil talking inside of them. Sure glad Darwin didn’t believe we evolved from synthetic products all by ourselves when he died. Probably figured not everything that is on earth is produced by synthetic products, therefore didn’t just show up on its own. Elements such as Gasoline just don’t produce itself, we can’t make more of, and we may have to go electricity or some other form of energy in the future. The above video is right on, this world would be terrible if atheist ruled.

To get through reading books about what darwin started,have to replace evolution with breeding, or that it means a living organisms head or body gets smaller or bigger,not in the sense that a completely diffrent animal forms in a 100 year life span. Athiest go off on synthetic life like it is able to produce everything,is not the case,something anyways made synthetic products too. Feline,canine,reptile,and all types of insects,is what they are with changes through breeding within its own category. Humans are humans,groomed or not,sorry to tell you,but common sense needs to get rid of discussion on this topic,faith should be enough,take this or leave it,is your own life,have pity on you,I read it all,anything you say,i'm not responding to,since it is clear that athiest who disagree don't have much common sense,and isn't taking this seriously,and therefore is impossible to help for the better,so take it or leave it,later. May God be with you.

This is a very long post with a lot with a lot of content so I thought I would number my responses to your questions and comments to hopefully make it easier to read.

1. Yes, DNA has changed many times in 100 years in many bacteria. Some DNA changes have taken as little as 5 years, but over a course of tens of thousands of generations of the studied species.

2.No, there is no cure for HIV at the time. Monkeys are immune to HIV, but not from the virus that HIV evolved from, SIV.

3. No known food or substance can make someone grow a tail or other appendage. However, as an environment changes species of that environment will adapt over the course of many generations so they may survive the change. If they do not adapt, they die out.

4. Most monkey species have generation spans as long as humans thus any major evolutions would not be seen in a single, or even 100 lifetimes. Also, if their environment is not changing, their is no need to adapt to it. For example, the shark has gone through very, very few major adaptations in the millions of years that it has been around. There just hasn't been a need for evolutionary change.

5. We are very different from cave men. Skull structure is far less ape-like and the cranial cavity which houses the brain is larger.

6. DNA and evolutionary change is very dependent on the species. Humans have 25 year generations roughly. While some bacteria can experience 1,000 generations in a week. DNA change in the bacteria is far more easily observed than in humans due to this factor. If you are referring to changing the DNA in a single organism, lets say Bob who works in accounting, it would take some sort of huge outside force to change his DNA in a few days and he would likely die very quickly and be unable to pass that DNA down to his offspring.

7. Cross species breeding is rare but not unheard of. Horses and donkeys, two separate species, still possess enough of the same chromosomes to breed together, however, their offspring, mules, are sterile and cannot breed. Also, it is believed that when the ancestors of humans breed with the ancestors of chimps for another 2 million years or so after their split from their common ancestor.

8.Synthetic products are produced by humans. All of them. It is part of the definition of synthetic. The opposite of synthetic is natural.

9. I believe in right and wrong. Every action will have consequences and I will suffer those consequences whether they be positive or negative. If you would like to label wrong as "sin" then go right ahead. Killing, lying, cheating etc is still wrong.

10. I see lots of things forming everyday. Islands rising from the ocean, land sinking into the water. As for forming in midair, thunderstorms and other weather phenomenon are usually forming there.

11. Ok, that is part of evolution. And I suppose to can chose to believe in evolution. Like choosing to believe in gravity.

12. The bone structure and protrusion of the jawline has also changed. Why do limit your belief on body size and parts of the brain? What make brain tissue so special that it is the only part of the body that evolves?

13. I'm not sure what you are saying here, it doesn't make any sense to me. Can you please clarify?

14. Chimpanzees and Gorillas have learned language and passed it down to their offspring. They are incapable of spoken word because of the limitations of their vocal chords, no the limitations of their brains. On top of that, we did not have spoken word until about 20,000 years ago, and it took us another 12,000 years to write in down.

15. Again, I'm not sure what you are trying to say or why I would HAVE to believe it. Can you please clarify again?

16. Ok.

17. Correct, living organisms were not first. Synthetic products came well after life though. I suppose you can argue land was first if you are considering when the Earth was cooling out of its molten state. The water which was more than likely brought by comets and asteroids since it is not a heavy element of which the Earth was formed of.

18. Rocks, dirt, even your skin are composed of atoms, atoms of which use to be hydrogen that was converted to heavier elements by star through fusion and then distributed throughout the galaxy when the star exploded. These elements coalesced in a nebula where our solar system formed. We are watching similar systems form all over the galaxy. I'm not sure if that is what you are asking, but that is where dirt and rocks come from, and no they are not living, they are inanimate.

19. Yeah, land was here before life. Water was too. Life formed in water and eventually populated the land.

20. Agreed

21.See answer 18. The original hydrogen atoms were formed shortly after the big bang. Where the big bang came from and what was before is only speculation. It marks the limit of our current scientific knowledge.

22. It was formed in a nebulae

23. We do produce gasoline... in refineries. We refine oil/petroleum to make gasoline. We pump petroleum out of the ground. It is from from long dead plant life over the course of millions of year. We can't make it because we don't have millions of year to wait. However we do make synthetic oil for cars and stuff, but that cannot be refined into a good fuel for combustion engines. Recent technological breakthroughs have allowed us to start using corn to make more gasoline using less petroleum. How does this one argument make anything you said true? The argument has nothing to do with anything you said above it. In fact, the statement you made isn't even correct. Does that make everything you said before it wrong? No, it doesn't, because they are not dependent on each, they are completely separate things.

24. I've looked into it. There is no proof of God. Otherwise it wouldn't be faith. As soon as their is proof of God, faith is gone. It becomes fact. It becomes scientific.

25. Water does not invent itself, and it is not one of the elements. Water is actully 2 different elements bonded in a very specific way, Hydrogen and Oxygen. To be precise, 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom. H20. And occurs when these atoms are present and some form of external energy is added and causes a chemical reaction that creates the bond.

26. Enough for what?

(For the rest of this, I'm going to assume you meant inanimate in place of synthetic so I don't have to keep repeating myself.)

27. That is not why we argue at all. I like discussing and hearing new ideas. As for 'sin,' I battle with right and wrong every day. And I always try and do right but I make mistakes and I take responsibility for those mistakes. I treat people how I want to be treated. And I try and be kind and helpful every step of the way. Darwin believed in his theories until the day he died. We now know that his theories were incomplete and/or incorrect and we now have a greater understanding for evolution and adaptation that he ever had and we were able to build on his ideas. Gasoline is not an element and is produced by humans. Petroleum is in limited supply. As for your electricity comment, 90% of the world's electricity comes from burning petroleum and coal. So that isn't a viable option when those resources run out. Many of our founding fathers were atheists, and this country has turned out pretty good.

28. Why would we change facts to half-truths and borderline lies? No one in the scientific community is claiming that evolution occurs over a hundred year life span. As a matter of fact, species with 100 year life spans would likely take hundreds of thousands of year to evolve. Evolutionary changes are noticeable from generation to generation. Only when you compare ancestors from thousands of generations apart.

I hope you found that this answers some of your questions. I was actually a little bummed when I read that you weren't going to respond because I was replying to this post as I read. But I will post it anyway and hope you reply back.

11-28-2010, 07:29 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Couldn't have said it better myself. Well put.

11-28-2010, 07:25 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Dancerman Wrote: Muslims hate Jews and Christians because Mohammed told them that they had to. Not because of the Crusades. The Crusades were an effort to reclaim lands which were Jewish and Christian from the muslim conquerors. Any place of worship Jewish, Christian, or other, could and would be destroyed at will by the muslims who saw (and still see) their mission as assuring that Islam is the only accepted faith or if others don't accept it, they must submit to the rule of muslims (dhimmitude).

Muslims don't hate Jews and Christians because that is what Mohammed taught. Like any other budding empire, they wanted to spread their influence over the world. This is something that all civilizations have in common. In the case of Muslims, which later became the Ottoman Empire, Safavid Empire, and Mughul Empire, those who stood in their way of expansion were the Jews and the Holy Roman Empire. When you try and spread your influence by force, animosity forms. France/England, Japan/China, North and South Korea. When the Muslims took Jerusalem, the Christians wanted to take it back, thus hundreds of years of fighting has fostered deep seeded hostilities between the cultures.

To add to that hatred are the religious beliefs. The Quran says the same thing about non-Muslims as the Bible says about non-Christians, and the Torah says about non-Jews: They must die horrible, horrible deaths. Usually by stoning, at the point of a sword or set on fire.

11-28-2010, 07:08 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

blackdog Wrote:
ChristyR Wrote: ,name="Christy Ri do?

No real Atheist,owns a bible.

That statement is so ridiculous that I can't seriously rationalize any way that you think it is true. I'm guessing it is just some fleeting thought that you decided to type to get a knee jerk reaction out of people.

11-28-2010, 07:03 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

That is an excellent idea. However, we should start a new thread on the the topic as not to derail this one further from its original topic: agnostic churches.

10-19-2010, 06:46 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Wow, that is a really interesting read. I had not heard of this experiment. Thank you.

And welcome to the website.=)

10-02-2010, 07:56 AM

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Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

dakotat Wrote: No i was banned because there is a double standard going on here and the other posters couldn't stand the heat nor the same treatment they dish out to believers. The other posters also couldn't back up their points with legitimate and credible links and were highly insulting while not knowing a thing they were talking about.

they couldn't discuss without insulting and whined everytime the truth was pointed out ot them.

as for this post, what i said earlier still stands, the church just views them as deceived and lost people nothing more, nothing less. if the atheist chooses to not believe thatis their choice but they cannot demand evidence when they cannot produce one shred of evidence to support their denials.

please prove the events recorded in the Bible did not happen, you deny them so the ball is in your court.

you can catch me at www.archiesarena.com to continue any discussion but be forewarned, the rules are not in your favor.

The burden of proof lies on the person making a claim, not someone refuting the claim. For example, natural selection. The evidence was examined, a claim was made, and the burden of proof was reached. Same with the earth being round, earth revolving around then Sun, dinosaurs living millions of years ago, flight, the light bulb etc.

And you were not banned because we could not handle your point of view. You were banned for your excessive name calling. We welcome all points of view here and love discussing topics. Just don't resort to petty name calling when you can't defend your viewpoint adequately is all we ask.

I seriously can't believe that you say say you haven't been provided links. I provided a compiled list of links for you that you have refused to look at. It's still there. I just checked it.

Rules are not in our favor? Do they ignore all evidence and logical thinking?