Forums
Pages
Beliefs
Religion
Philosophy
News
Arguments
JOIN
LOGIN
Forums
All Posts
Displaying all 10 Forum Posts
Forums
>
Religion & Science
>
Is there a respectable medium between creationism and evolution?
2010-05-22 11:35 AM
ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts:
197
Can they play nice together?
2010-05-22 05:28 PM
MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts:
226
Catholicism thinks so.
I don't actually give evolution much thought. When I considered the complexity of the eyeball and sight and all it requires for it to work - nothing on earth could make me think a blind organism could have the "need" or the "desire" or whatever it supposedly took to conceive of sight and then to produce over whatever length of time - I just DON'T HAVE that much faith. My faith is much smaller.
And then to communicate that desire or need to their offspring?
Wait - offspring? How did two sexes evolve over billions of years?
What kept them alive until there were two opposites to mate?
I'm sorry. It makes no sense to my mind and my faith isn't THAT big.
2010-05-22 06:39 PM
ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts:
197
http://biology.about.com/library/weekly/aa090700a.htm
There are still asexual organism today.... Is that what you are talking about?
http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/evolutionary_creation.pdf
Above is a 12 page paper on evolutionary creation... if you are interested....
2010-05-22 07:31 PM
MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts:
226
Hi Christy,
That would be very low, very primitive life forms.
How did two dogs, for example, ever survive long enough for one to become male and one to become female?
I will take a look at the link. Thanks.
MrWonder
2010-05-22 07:38 PM
MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts:
226
From the link:
"In other words, evolution is a planned and purpose driven natural process. This position also argues that humans evolved from pre-human ancestors, and over a period of time the Image of God and human sin were gradually and mysteriously manifested."
That's not Christian. That's evolution. I don't accept it because it's contrary to God's Word.
But thank you anyhow.
MrWonder
2010-08-24 09:08 AM
Tedwin
Chicago, IL
Posts:
3
I personally believe Evolution makes the most sense and there is lots of evidence to uphold it. But theoretically yes they could "play nice" together! The actual question is: Can the people who support the belief systems play nice? I would sugguest two Books
1: BANG! The History of our Universe
2: Evolution
Both are very large books filled with scientific evidence and logic, they are both 200-300 pages long and I strongly sugguest reading them for the Scientific side of the arguement
For Creationism however...I think your Best bet is this book
1: The King James Catholic Bible
I have read it (I used to be Catholic) So it does talk a little bit about it.
2010-09-20 07:17 PM
archaeologist
Seoul, South Korea
Posts:
79
"Is there a respectable medium between creationism and evolution?"
NO> evolution is a false teaching and needs to be dismissed by one and all.
2011-01-30 09:42 PM
ChristFollower
Valrico, FL
Posts:
3
Secular visionary helps prove the 7 day creation story
By Robert Hill
To the secular natural human mind it is unbelievable to think that the universe and all of the stars that are billions of light years away could be created in a span of seven days of 24 hour length. It is so incredible that even many weak Christians feel uneasy about the seven day creation story in the Bible. To the logical secular mind of a scientist who has never seen any sudden creation phenomena anywhere in the visible known universe, the Bible’s explanation of creation is unbelievable as well. How can such vast quantities of matter possibly come together and spontaneously assemble into stars, planets and other massive celestial objects in a day? How can inorganic matter suddenly be arranged into all the life forms on earth in one day? To the natural mind there must be another explanation, especially if you do not want to be under submission to an all powerful and all knowing God.
Any attempt by the Christians to reason with the intellectual secularists evokes immediate disbelief. The secularist’s mind shuts down because they are pre-convinced that religion deals with myths and fantasies. So let us turn to the secular mindset and reasoning and there we can find the Achilles’ heel of the naturalistic worldview.
Science fiction extrapolates current science trends and makes predictions about what is possible in the future. Secular visionaries like Gene Roddenberry portrayed in his television series and films what can be possible in the future based on current science and scientific explanations of today. Many of his ideas are now science fact today. (e.g. the flip phone, floppy disks, CT scanners) He, like all secular humanists, embraced the amoral process of evolution as the explanation for life. When and while life exists, they believe the processes of evolution will always be working to improve and advance life forms into greater and more improved life forms in the future. Furthermore, since life has created intelligence with capabilities of self awareness and imagination, the organism (man) can now direct and accelerate evolutionary changes in himself. Quantuum leaps up the evolutionary scale are now possible because man can use his knowledge to make machines and computers to accelerate and amplify his efforts of improving the world and the human organism.
Ironically, the ultimate state that the organism man can conceive of is omnipotence. Again, look at the dreams of the visionaries like Rodenberry in his stories and movies. In the Star Trek, The Next Generation series a race of beings called “Q” are portrayed as omnipotent beings with the power to create anything from small objects to complete planets with eco-systems
instantaneously
by just a thought. This race of beings is the extrapolated endpoint by today’s scientific visionaries of all conceivable evolutionary advancements that can be made in the future. If you believe in evolution then you believe that we are evolving into something better and more advanced as time passes. In short, if you believe in evolution then you believe that we are evolving into gods. So if the secular mind can envision man evolving into a God like being with the ability to create matter and energy at will how can they conclude that an omnipotent God cannot exist?
Another scientific extrapolation is the Star Trek holodeck where the massive information systems of future computers combined with massive energy producing systems can be used to produce an instant reality of people and places where the creators of these systems can step into and enjoy a new and designed reality for the benefit and enjoyment of the creators. After all, energy and matter are theoretically interconvertible by the equation E = mc2. So if it can be done theoretically on a small scale then why can’t it happen on a universal scale with a God of infinite power and infinite intelligence?
The point is that the natural mind
can
believe in instantaneous universal creation if the scenario is presented just right however
not
in the context of an eternal God already in existence as the Bible presents. The reason for the bias is clear; the disbeliever has been taught or influenced from people in their past to disbelieve in God. They repeat the mantra that they have been brainwashed with: The “facts” of “real scientific data” does not support the possibility of the Bible version of creation. Christians have nothing to be embarrassed about in declaring a literal seven day creation story where each day is literally 24 hours each.
Theistic evolution has been proposed to reconcile the creation account with "real scientific data." Theistic evolution says in effect that God used evolution to create life on earth and the discrepancy between the time spans is explained by the Bible verse in the New Testament that says, “But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.”
1]
This freed nervous Bible believers to stretch the length of a day into a thousand years or even longer. However, that still flies in the face of the Bible which says that vegetation was made on day three and then the sun, moon and stars on day four. How can plants be made without a sun to give its light for photosynthesis?
2]
Plants cannot wait a “thousand years” for the sun to be made. God must have chosen to deliberately make the plants before the sun to see if people will have faith in his omnipotence and in his Word.
The beginning of life was a complete life form with the ability to reproduce after its own kind. The Bible says God made Man from the dust (the elements) of the ground. Adam was made a fully grown man on the day that he was created. He was created with "the appearance" of age. If you could go back in time and examine his body on the day he was created with all of
the knowledge and the instruments of today
you would conclude that he was a fully grown human approximately a couple decades old. But in reality he was less than a day old! Please note that the data from the instruments is not wrong however the interpretation of the data is wrong. Adam had an appearance of some age but in fact did not have any age.
So what about the astronomical arguments about the age of the universe being 4.6 billion years old calculated from running the clock backwards to the big bang? Well, yes if the universe started as a single point then yes, the universe is a billion years old BUT what if the universe was created as a complete entity and the cloud was released to disperse outwardly. If you could go back in time and examine the universe at the end of the creation week with all of
the knowledge and the instruments of today
you would see the universe expanding from a theoretical central point and conclude that the universe was 4.6 billion years old. So God made the complete universe in seven days which had an appearance of 4.6 billion years of age but in reality was only seven days old. The instruments today say that the universe has an age of billions of years but Biblical reality is only thousands of years.
Like many religions, Christianity believes that there is just one God. But as one philosopher once commented, “Define your terms.” Christians claim that their God is the same God of the Jews. They believe that God is an absolute God. That is, he is absolute in power (omnipotence), in knowledge (omniscient) and is eternal (he always has been in existence and forever will be). He can create, alter or eliminate matter and energy at will from the vacuum of nothingness (ex nihilo). God is aware of all events in the universe down to the subatomic details. Every atom in the universe is being constantly monitored by God, even the hairs on our heads our numbered. God therefore has the attribute of omnipresence. Time, space, matter and energy are all his creation; he can create, alter or eliminate these at will by just a word. He exists outside our universe because he transcends our universe because he is the creator of our universe.
God is a being to which no greater attributes can be attributed to. Any real or conceived being with lesser attributes cannot be God. How big is your God?
You can believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible even in light of modern science. You can have confidence that God will uphold His word even above His name.
1]
NIV Bible, 2 Peter 3:8
2]
One may question the Biblical account at this point saying how could trees grow without sunlight? And how can there have been “evening and morning the” second and third days without a sun in the sky? The answer is found at the end of the Bible in Revelations. Rev 22:5 “There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light.” When God showed up for work his light was there. When he left for the day the light went away.
2011-01-31 11:57 AM
ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts:
197
ChristFollower: Where did you pick up this version at? It seems to be slightly different that the one that Robert Hill posted here:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,16370.0.html?PHPSESSID=5fd9e321b009af88a7b601f318dec950
..... Also, there are about 3 pages worth of reasons why this doesn't prove anything on the above link.
2011-02-01 10:34 AM
ChristFollower
Valrico, FL
Posts:
3
I am Robert Hill. I was kicked off that secular forum because I was accused of proselytizing so I do not know what replies happened on that forum.