The Anti-Theist Views on Faith Healing

2010-05-19 03:01 PM

ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts: 197

I liked this video. Thoughts?

2010-05-20 06:29 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226

She misquoted Christ.

And we don't boss God. God bosses us.

I have read the Bible for years. I don't have her problem with it. I have prayed for people to be healed and sometimes the answer is "Yes" in this world and sometimes the answer is "Yes" but it's in the next world.

Sometimes the answer is "No". I try to make it a habit not to boss my Creator Who is eternal, considering I will never live to be even 100.

2010-05-20 06:34 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226

Nutcases don't lock their doors because they think they are trusting God. I trust God. I don't trust people not to go into doors they have no business going into.

They didn't go to doctors or dentists? They didn't use the brains God gave them? Ok, she was obviously in a cult.

Look, the people I see on TV. The preachers, like Copeland, Hinn, Meyers, etc. Well, ok, I DON'T see them on TV, but I know they are there because I HAVE seen them a couple of times and that was enough for me.

I WISH they weren't on TV. IF ALL I KNEW about Christianity was what is on TV, I would NOT BE a Christian. So-called "Christian TV" is FULL of nutcases. They're all to get your money and gain a following. They live in multimillion dollar houses. They are NOT ABOUT preaching the Gospel. They are about making THEMSELVES RICH and I PITY the poor people who are taken in by them.

I thank God I have my good old King James Bible and I can read it for myself and I thank God for the local church. And no, it's not perfect either, but neither am I, but I am headed in that direction and so are they.

I am sorry for the lady. She needs some proper teaching from the Bible and stay away from the looney-tunes she's been cursed with in the past.

2010-05-20 06:36 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226

Why not drink poison and pick up snakes?

"Thou shalt not tempt (put to the test) the Lord thy God."

That shows lack of trust and lack of understanding of the Bible passage.

Ok, I have to listen to the last bit now...

2010-05-21 01:29 PM

ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts: 197

Hey Wonder,

was wondering where you'd been :)

So, your official stance is against faith healing, then?

2010-05-21 04:59 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226

Hi Christy,

I have been here but maybe the computer isn't updating the site properly, because I did not see any responses other than my own until yesterday.

No, I am not against faith healing, if you mean receiving healing through faith. I am against the idiots that make a big living out of CLAIMING to be faith healers.

Let me clarify what I said in that first sentence. Genuine "faith healing" is not the trash the "faith healers" claim it is. It's not a blind, "I prayed therefore I'm healed" thing, like they claim. IF God chooses to heal a person in response to prayer and faith, it will stand the test. In other words, it is NOT faith to have diabetes and get some quack to pray for you and then you throw your medicine out the door. Guess what? You will die.

If it was real faith, that results in a real healing in God's will and purpose, you can GO TO THE DOCTOR and get tested, and HE will tell you your diabetes is gone. And guess what? If you are REALLY healed, taking the medicine would likely kill you. When God does a work in a person, such as healing, it will stand the doctor's test. Let the doctor tell you not to take medicine. You don't need some faith healer telling you "If you have faith, you'll throw your medicine away." No sir. If it's a genuine work of God, the doctor will take you off the medicine. His work stands the test.

There are so many phonies out there it's ridiculous. We don't command God - God commands us. Healing served it's main purpose by providing the proof of who the Messiah was. I DO believe that God sometimes heals today, in response to the prayer of faith. But He is not obligated to, because He knows all the facts about everything and everybody, and He is the Sovereign God. If He chooses to withhold healing from me, He has a higher purpose. If I don't TRUST God in that respect, then I DON'T have faith. Isn't faith trust? What would happen if every prayer I prayed was instantly answered? Would that be great faith? No. Faith says, "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him." If my little child truly trusts me, then they will trust me no matter what things look like. God is more faithful and trustworthy than I am - surely if my child can trust me I can trust God, even when He says, "No."

MrWonder

2010-05-21 05:19 PM

ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts: 197

Still trying to get a firm grasp on what you are saying...

If you are sick, and you pray to be healed.... before going to the doctor, and you are not healed.... Isn't going to the doctor putting your faith in man's hands over Gods? Disobeying his direct orders to stay sick? .... because if he wanted to heal you, he could do it without man's help, right?

And what if the doctor can't fix you? Is that God telling you that you deserve to die?

And what about me, the non-believer? I've been healed many times by man-made remedies.... Does that mean that God wants me, the one who disobeyed him, to live more than he wants the diabetic child who didn't even have a life to survive?

2010-09-07 03:12 AM

archaeologist
Seoul, South Korea
Posts: 79

MrWonder Wrote: 1. Nutcases don't lock their doors because they think they are trusting God. I trust God. I don't trust people not to go into doors they have no business going into.

2. They didn't go to doctors or dentists? They didn't use the brains God gave them? Ok, she was obviously in a cult.

Look, the people I see on TV. The preachers, like Copeland, Hinn, Meyers, etc. Well, ok, I DON'T see them on TV, but I know they are there because I HAVE seen them a couple of times and that was enough for me.

3. I WISH they weren't on TV. IF ALL I KNEW about Christianity was what is on TV, I would NOT BE a Christian. So-called "Christian TV" is FULL of nutcases. They're all to get your money and gain a following. They live in multimillion dollar houses. They are NOT ABOUT preaching the Gospel. They are about making THEMSELVES RICH and I PITY the poor people who are taken in by them.

I thank God I have my good old King James Bible and I can read it for myself and I thank God for the local church. And no, it's not perfect either, but neither am I, but I am headed in that direction and so are they.

I am sorry for the lady. She needs some proper teaching from the Bible and stay away from the looney-tunes she's been cursed with in the past.

Let me start with this one. i have not seen the video yet and probably will at a later date but having just finished a faith healing discussion over at an atheist forum i do have some insights from God that should be addressed here. {numbers are mine for clarity}

1. people will go through locked or unlocked doors, to many it doesn't matter, that is why they are called thieves. one does not tempt God thus leaving one's doors unlocked may be construed as such but more research would have to be done on this.

2. a leap to a conclusion some people like natural medicines and want to avoid the poisons that come with prescription drug. doctors are not a guarantee that the patient will be diagnosed correctly or that the doctor will prescribe the correct dosage or medicine.

3. there are a lot of fakes out there but jesus warned us of them and provided criteria on how to expose them. believers do not need to call others names and i question the level of mr. wonder's faith. being derogatory towards others is not the christian way.

2010-09-07 03:24 AM

archaeologist
Seoul, South Korea
Posts: 79

ChristyR Wrote: Hey Wonder,

was wondering where you'd been :)

So, your official stance is against faith healing, then?

i know that the above is for someone else but let me say this: when people mentione 'faith healing' they are referring to a miraculous act from God who uses His power to remove the sickness. the problem with this view is that the petitioner is not looking for any other answer from God, they want the miracle like the ones that took place in the gospels and the book of acts.

God does not always do that. sometimes He leads people to doctors and the timing, the people involved, etc. are the miracle from God and the person gets healed.one cannot limit God to the way one wants to be healed for God may have other plans so that He can get the glory for your healing.

we do not know when a secular doctor needs to be involved to witness God at work and present an opportunity to give that doctor or nurse the gospel. we do not know what God wants all the time thus demanding only 1 form of healing is not right.

sometimes God will heal like Jesus and the disciples did in the gospels but we cannot be disapointed if He directs us to an alternative form. there is more at stake than just the healing and petitioners need to look at the whole picture then humble themselves before God and be open to His leading , after all the healing is not just for the person.

as examples, Jesus told a blind man to go wash in the pool after putting mud in HIs eyes. Could Jesus just said 'you are healed'? of course but Jesus was also setting an example for His followers to be open to the alternatives that will also be God's will.

2010-09-07 03:30 AM

archaeologist
Seoul, South Korea
Posts: 79

ChristyR Wrote: Still trying to get a firm grasp on what you are saying...

If you are sick, and you pray to be healed.... before going to the doctor, and you are not healed.... Isn't going to the doctor putting your faith in man's hands over Gods? Disobeying his direct orders to stay sick? .... because if he wanted to heal you, he could do it without man's help, right?

And what if the doctor can't fix you? Is that God telling you that you deserve to die?

And what about me, the non-believer? I've been healed many times by man-made remedies.... Does that mean that God wants me, the one who disobeyed him, to live more than he wants the diabetic child who didn't even have a life to survive?

no. see my previous post. what believers are to do is to pray for direction, let God be involved first and let Him direct you to the right place to go for healing. healing takes place in many forms and the believer must make sure God is getting the glory for that is one way for unbelievers to know that God is interested in them

God doesn't usually give direct orders to be sick. God heals in many different ways so that the unbeliever will see Him in action and be without excuse if they continue to reject His son.

NO, not deserve to die BUT death happens to all. Even lazerus died again. God has given each person a certain amount of time on this earth and {how much we do not know} no matter what one tries to do to stay alive it will not work. we all have to die some time. When God says your time is up, then it is up and no medicine will stop it from happening. {i cite the example of Mickey Mantle to support this point}

there will also be no miracle healing either. it is just your time to die. this is why people say make each moment count because tomorrow may be your last. it is also why manybelievers put a lot of pressure on others to be saved because no one knows when it is their turn an dif you die a sinner then you miss out.