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Second Coming

 
2010-04-23 12:07 PM

brmicke
Fort Pierre, SD
Posts: 1

The Second Coming (condensed)

There are many denominations that state that Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Generally, these same denominations deny this personal aspect as it relates to the Second Coming of Christ.

I feel that this is a misguided interpretation of the Holy Bible.

1. Here is what I have come to believe about the Second Coming.

-- New American Standard Hebrews 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

According to Hebrews 9:28 Jesus comes or appears for two reasons. Reason number one was to die on the cross. Reason number two was for salvation.

Reason number one was completed when Jesus died on the cross. If Jesus comes after the first coming (His death on the cross) then that is the Second Coming, and it concerns a person’s salvation. Peter said in Acts 3:19 and 20 that Jesus comes to a person through the Holy Spirit when that person repents. Since the coming referred to in Acts 3:19-21 comes after the first coming then it must be the Second Coming. After the indwelling of the believer Jesus says that he will never leave or forsake the Christian, Hebrews 13:5.

John the Baptist (coming in the Spirit of Elijah, Luke 1:17) was said to restore all things in Matthew 17:11.

-- New American Standard Matthew 17:11 And He answered and said, "Elijah is coming and will restore all things;

John the Baptist preached “repentance”, and the ministry of repentance brings about the restoration of Mankind’s personal relationship (Father/Child relationship, Luke 1:17) with God, through Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that John the Baptist came in the Spirit and power of Elijah in Matthew 11:14. In the example of John the Baptist and the referance to Elijah Jesus prepared his followers to understand a spiritual appearance. Just as the disciples initially expected to see Elijah literally reappear Jesus followers expect Jesus to physically come.

Acts 3:19-20 shows that Jesus will come to the individual when they repent. However Acts 3:21 says that Jesus will remain in Heaven and not appear until the restoration (repentance) happens.

This restoration is an individual’s repentance or conversion – it is the Second Coming of Christ. Jesus comes to the individual through the Holy Spirit just as the Apostle Peter said.

Acts 1:11 says that Jesus will come in the same way He left.

-- New American Standard Acts 1:11 and they also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

Jesus ascended into heaven from earth and the Second Coming will involve His coming from Heaven to the earth, as Acts 3:21 indicates. Peter preached that Jesus would come to earth (Second Coming) and indwell and abide with the individual believer, Acts 3:19-21. Jesus referred to this in John 14:15-28.

2. There are additional “comings” mentioned in the bible. These visitations are called the “Day or days of the Lord”.

The day or time of the Lord, is a time of judgment or recompense, 2 Peter 3:7. Recompense can take two forms, approval or disapproval, Romans 3:4. Jesus judges the sheep and goats (His flock or people, Ezekiel 34:17 and 20) and some enter the kingdom and some enter the fire, 1 Corinthians 3:15. The day of the Lord is not the Second Coming; the two terms refer to two distinct concepts. The "Day" is a time of visitation consisting of the approval or discipline that Christians recieve as they are conformed to the image of Christ.

The Second Coming is the arrival of Christ in the life of the believer. After the the life of the believer is changed through the "presence" of Christ the growth process begins. The time or "day" involves the application of a rod (judgment), or the gentleness and approval of the Lord resulting in a reward.

This approval can result in a blessing as opposed to the application of a rod of correction. The "Day of the Lord" has to do with salvation when it applies to believers. The accompanying judgment (fire) corrects sinful people, thereby furthering their salvation, 1 Corinthians 11:32. This entire concept is summarized in one sentence in Ezekiel 20:37.

-- New American Standard 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord in order that we may not be condemned along with the world.

The discipline or the Day of the Lord comes as a thief. In other words the discipline is accomplished by delivering the Christian to the limited power of the thief (devil) for the Christian's correction. The Christian is different from the unbeliever. When the unbeliever is judged this judgment results in their condemnation, because of their unbelief.

-- New American Standard Ezekiel 20:37 "And I shall make you pass under the rod, and I shall bring you into the bond of the covenant;

The Apostle Paul uses Himself as an example of the visitation of the Lord (The Day of the Lord) as He comes to visit the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 4:21.

3. Jesus uses parables to teach people as the bible mentions in Matthew 13:34. He explains why in Matthew 13:14 and 15. The reason for speaking in parables is to keep unbelievers from understanding the message.

This is the reason that the bible seems confusing to many people.

Pr 25:2 ¶ It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. (KJV)

-- New American Standard Matthew 13:34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitudes in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable,

The judgment mentioned in Matthew 25:31 is the judgment referred to as the "Day of the Lord".

The theme of John the Baptist’s ministry was “repentance”. The preaching of repentance will come before the judgment of the Day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5. God gives people a chance to repent before He judges them.

-- New American Standard Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.

The judgment or Day of the Lord will come upon a person because an abomination (sin) is in the Holy place, where Jesus should be. Becoming desolate is the result of the judgment of God brought about by the abomination of sin occupying Jesus rightful place (the human heart). In other words the individual person will be given the opportunity to repent from whatever abomination they have allowed to occupy the place in their lives where Jesus should reign, Mark 13:14.

-- King James 1 Corinthians 15:34 awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

-- New American Standard Mark 13:35 "Therefore, be on the alert for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, at cockcrowing, or in the morning

-- New American Standard Mark 13:36 lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.

4. According to 1 Corinthians 14:23 there are two types of people who will not understand a message in tongues (parable). The first person is the unlearned Christian and the second person is a person who does not believe (obey) Jesus. The purpose of tongues is seen to be effective because the unlearned church and sinful or unbelieving people do not understand the mysteries Jesus spoke of.

Jesus used parables (tongues) so that unbelievers would not understand His words, Matthew 13:14 and 15.

Matt 13:14 -- New American Standard Matthew 13:14 "And in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says `You will keep on hearing, but will not understand 

There are several related articles at the bottom of the following linked page - 

www.angelfire.com/ab7/brmicke

2010-04-29 08:07 AM

Frank K
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 27

I am certainly not a Biblical scholar, but having many Christian friends and neighbors, I try to understand some of the scriptures that drive their beliefs so I can have an "intelligent" conversation with them.  Much of our political discourse today is influenced by organized religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam, or Judaism.   Beyond the social issues of when life begins, abortion, gay rights and such, the expectation of the Second Coming of Christ seems to be of paramount importance in how many Christians view the world, in particular conflicts and wars in the Middle East, but those beliefs don't capture the headlines that the social issues do. Brimicke has provided several Biblical references to the Second Coming in his posting, but like many Christians he has passed over  many of the more gruesome details in the  book of Revelation .

I understand that Revelation as well as verses in Ezekiel are controversial within the Christian and Jewish communities, and that there are multiple interpretations.  Nevertheless, a significant number of Christians, the so called premillennial dispensationalists, or more accurately the Christian Zionists, subscribe to the notion that the State of Israel needs to be defended and preserved for the Second Coming of Christ. Some journalists, most notably Gary North, have called them Armageddonites, after the place in Israel where the rapture will supposedly occur.  Some of the leading Christian figures of our time such as Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, and the late Jerry Falwell, were all strong advocates of Israel and opposed to any two state solution. Political figures like George W. Bush and Sarah Palin are also, by their words and actions, Christian Zionists.

The government of Israel, of course, has its own lobbies in Washington D.C., most notably AIPAC, but in sheer numbers and purpose, they would not be as powerful without the loyal support of millions of Christian Zionists. The Israeli government has capitalized on these Christian beliefs by nurturing a relationship with Christian leaders, despite the fact that, as Gary North put it so brutally, "The survival of the State of Israel is mandatory for its role as national sacrifice for Christianity, as fundamentalists perceive Christianity. Millions of Jews must die in horror in order that Christians may avoid death."

Ordinarily I wouldn't challenge what my Christian friends believed about the events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ.  However, as the attitudes of the more militant members of the Christian community have permeated into our government policies, it should be an issue of concern for every citizen of this country. I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state, but with respect to our policies on Israel and Palestine, it would appear to me that they are driven more by Biblical prophecy rather than strategic need.

General Patraeus highlighted his dilemma for American troops when he told the Senate Armed Services Committee, "enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to our ability to advance our interests in the area of responsibility.  Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the region]."

If we expect our Presidential candidates and members of Congress to be honest in their stated positions on Israel, it is time that they came out of the closet and openly discussed their views on the Second Coming of Christ and how those views would influence their foreign policy decisions in the Middle East.  I personally don't believe that American troops should die for a Biblical prophecy.

 Comments are invited.  It's a controversial subject that needs to come out of the closet.

2010-04-29 03:44 PM

svdbygrc
Saylorsburg, PA
Posts: 4

Here is what I have learned by studying the Bible concerning the Second Coming.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit - which happens when you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior comes to dwell inside of every believer. That is not the Second Coming - that is what Jesus referred to when He says He will send the Counselor or the Spirit of Truth. The Holy Spirit dwells inside of us changing us to become more like Jesus. He changes us from the inside out. He leads and guides us into all of God’s truth and His will for our lives.

One day, and we don’t know when that is, Jesus will rapture all the believers to go with Him into heaven.
1 Thess. 4:16,17 says, “The Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.” Believers will be in heaven with Jesus and unbelievers will still be on the earth. Since we will meet Jesus in the air, this is not the Second Coming either. He must come back to earth.

The tribulation (where unbelievers will face judgments as mentioned in Revelation) follows sometime after that and goes on for 7 years. At the end of the 7 years, Jesus will return to this earth, just like Acts 1:11 says. 

He will return physically.  This is the Second Coming.
Zechariah 14 speaks of the Lord Jesus’ return. Verse 4 says, “On that day (when all the nations gather to fight against Jerusalem - v.3) his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south…Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him (believers)”

Matthew 24:30-31 describes Jesus’ Second Coming. “At that time the sign of the Son of Man (Jesus) will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.”

Rev. 1:7 - “Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who have pierced him, and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.” Has any of this happened yet? No, so the Second Coming hasn’t happened yet.

Jesus’ words to all believers is to remain watchful.
Matt. 24:36, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
Matt 24:42, “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.”
Matt. 25:13 also speaks of being watchful for His return. “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.”

Jesus’ message to us is to “Be watchful” because we don’t know when He’ll return for us.

Mark 13:5,6 - “Jesus said to them, “Watch out that no one deceives you. Many will come in my name claiming, ‘I am he’ and will deceive many.”

Keep relying on the Holy Spirit to lead and direct your life and guide you into all truth. Then share the Truth wherever and whenever you have the opportunity.

God bless and continue to study His Word! We serve and Awesome God!

2010-05-03 05:24 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
I believe the ANSWER you are looking for is to be found in MATT 24
and those who ARE WORTHY SHALL BE TAKEN UP and no mention
of all the also rans.

pax
2010-05-04 12:14 PM

Kim.rel100
Lincolnton, NC
Posts: 5
No one truly knows when the secong coming will be. There are no record of the gospels being written before 85ad. Everyone back then thought that Jesus was coming during their life time, so they thought, I assume, that there was no true reason to write down anyhting because there wasn't going to be anyone to read it. Then there days came to anend and their predisesors and descendants started to write down what they had been told at 85 years after the Day of our Lord.

Revelations says alot of things, but everything in relevations is written in medophors. So honestly who really knows what the exact meaning of it really is. 

Also look at who revelations was written towards the people of that time.  It was punishments for those who (Romans) were perscuting the righteous. We are not in their same situation. This is a book about how the Romans (evil ones) will suffer. During this time frame these people were horrified because how could God really be ruling with all the evil things happening to God's children. In Relevations and other books we read of Jesus coming again to save the world but does it not say he will cme down from the heavens as he went up? So this would mean spiritually, so when all the believers go are they not in spirt also? So could it be that maybe when we die is when we will know wether or not Jesus has truly come to take us? Could our day of death be our day of redemption? I could believe that the true second coming is after our own death. That is when we will see the rath of God when he gives us that opportunity to believe in him before desending to hell.
2010-05-04 03:39 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
YES no SPECIFIC DATE WAS RECORDED, as JESUS didn't know it either
so He didn't tell one when, just that He always ADMONISHED ALERTNESS
WATCH. BE PREPARED< LUKE 12, 35-40
2010-05-04 09:14 PM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/nero.html

Some scholars had put forth the idea that John was refering to Nero when he was talking of the Anti-Christ and was not portending to the future.

The History Channel also did a really good documentary on the idea a while back also.
2010-05-05 09:20 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
I do hope that CHRISTIANS aren'ty getting their truth from the BOOBTUBE
or the mindset of todays THEOLOGICAL or ACADEMIAL communities.

THAT SAID, this for  Svdbygrc
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit - 
which happens when you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior 
comes to dwell inside of every believer
We hear alot about this, but what PROOF DO YOU OFFER UP, for this
contention?
HOW MANY CHRISTIANS TODAY CAN LIFT ONE IOTA OF MARK 16,17+18
Think about the whole TEXT there, verses 15-18
                                   How many have truly BELIEVED? 
So then you must ask this QUESTION, WHAT HAVE YOU BELIEVED?
Or is what you have believed been something that DECIEVERS have concieved?
Hence why this faith is as CHAOTIC as that of the SUNNI's  and SHIA's.

pax
2010-05-07 07:29 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
The second coming of Christ is as literal as the first coming.

MrWonder
2010-05-07 10:15 AM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119
PASHA Wrote: I do hope that CHRISTIANS aren'ty getting their truth from the BOOBTUBE
or the mindset of todays THEOLOGICAL or ACADEMIAL communities.

THAT SAID, this for  Svdbygrc
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit - 
which happens when you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior 
comes to dwell inside of every believer
We hear alot about this, but what PROOF DO YOU OFFER UP, for this
contention?
HOW MANY CHRISTIANS TODAY CAN LIFT ONE IOTA OF MARK 16,17+18
Think about the whole TEXT there, verses 15-18
                                   How many have truly BELIEVED? 
So then you must ask this QUESTION, WHAT HAVE YOU BELIEVED?
Or is what you have believed been something that DECIEVERS have concieved?
Hence why this faith is as CHAOTIC as that of the SUNNI's  and SHIA's.

pax


Are you saying it is a bad idea to get information from the world of academia?  These people spend much of their lives digging up the past and piecing it together. When new evidence presents itself, new ideas of what happened have to be considered.
2010-05-07 10:43 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
I think Pash means the weird preachers on TV who profess to teach Christianity and the other programming that has no Bible basis at all but is the ways of this world system.

However, Pash will have to speak for himself. Just my thoughts about what he said.

MrWonder
2010-05-07 09:30 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
Are you saying it is a bad idea to get information from the world of academia?  T
hese people spend much of their lives digging up the past and piecing it together. 
When new evidence presents itself, new ideas of what happened have to be considered.

We are misled in trust right from our diapers, trust this one, trust them for they studied, 
trust trust and before long one might get as olde as myself GOD willing and become
all jaded, by what that MISGUIDED TRUST has wrought.

Jeremy 17, 5-8
BLESSED ARE THEY WHO WHAT?
DAMNED ARE THEY WHO DO WHAT?
pretty simple really
Look ZACH, wherever I have gone, I have said this and I say this here now
DON"T BELIEVE ME or anyone else, LOOK FOR THE TRUTH YOURSELF

You may as I do, look at what the ACADEMICS offer up and then we are to PROOF 
what they claim.
Somethings we do need to take on faith, for I am not likely to be shot into space to see
if that really is a VACUUM,
but what can be PROVED must be by each EYE and EAR diligently

Recently on M/W site that went AD MAD, because they demanded someone pay
them to keep the SPAM JUNK off, I chose to move,
Before that happened I had read a BOOK that recently changed my perspective much as
the BOOK- BIBLIO-BIBLE and others have.
That BOOK was called STUPID TO THE LAST DROP.
And if I had stopped there, I would have been a fool, so I read a more recent book
called TARSANDS, which bolstered my whole outlook on our SOCIETY and it's
ADDLED ADDICTION to PETROLEUM.
That said today I began another BOOK, about global warming,  forget the title
at the moment, EARTH and HEAVEN, I think but don't quote me.
Well the point is this,
YES M/W is right about CO2 not being a POISON but it can be given specific conditions,

That aside, I find the author tends to weave in his dissertation, one moment he seems
pro some thing and the next CON  the some thing. That is the NATURE of SCIENCE,
weaving back and forth, and often skewed by the biases of men, to read one result
over another.
I have already found a litany of flaws therein making the read the more difficult, when one
can't find AFFINITY with the teller.
And likewise the same can be said of the many HOLY BOOXs, which all possess
varying degrees of error, confusion and contradictions.

And still we find folks who BLITHELY CLAIM their BOOK inerrnat- GOD's WORD
never to be questioned.

THE POINT I AM MAKING, be not BLINDED, PROOF THE POSTER< THE POST
THE MATERIAL and it will go well for those who this early on learn.

I said what I said in reference to the most COMMONLY ASSUMED PREFECT that
is supposed to UNSUSPECT, but which of all is the most SUBJECT to pressures
to keep the bloody traditions alive and going on.

I WANT ALL PEOPLE TO HAVE THEIR EYES WIDE OPEN rather than wide shut, to a
skew that can often be so easily be disproven.

HENCE my question, of WHO is a CHRISTIAN?
Is a christian who can do what MARK 16,17+18 purports or is anyone a christian
who claims something in the name of Jesus, or whatever the DOGMA they were trained
into, as in the case of the WITNESS family who disowned their CHILD out of BLIND STUPID
INSIPID IGNORANCE to the EDICTS of their ASSOCIATION they fear to leave.
MERCY SHALL I HAVE was a lesson that obviously wasn;'t taught to that assembly of
SUPPOSED believers.
WHY i wonder? 
GOD help them, amen and GOD help anyone who is afraid to look or is looking.
THAT THEY MAY SEE AND THE MORE CLEARLY.

PAX
2010-05-08 08:28 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
A Christian is one who is born from above (by the Holy Spirit of God).
2010-05-08 05:07 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
I had posted earlier
  That said today I began another BOOK, about global warming,  forget the title
at the moment, EARTH and HEAVEN, I think but don't quote me.

The title is actually 
HEAVEN and EARTH by a fellow named IAN PLIMER

It is much like reading a MANUAL, and that is maybe also how most of
my posts come off, sorry>
What this fellow reports sure cuts through the modern ballyhoo of GLOBAL WARMING

That said, the reason I mention any of  this is that instead of us focusing on 
a nonissue, of WARMING per say, but rather the issue of RESOURCE SQUANDERING
much in the same vain we globally are in CREDIT SPENDING whereby so many
regions have gone from being FISCALLY VIABLE  to being DEFICIT RELIANT
and this is what was the ultimate straw of the advent of the GREAT DEPRESSION.

We as citizens-denisons of this world have not been responsible ourselves and
with that said, we have as SOCIETIES come to relay on the idiom of GOVERNMENT
to do the right thing for US, but GOVERNMENTS have this tendency to favor them who
reward them more, hence why it's nolonger a DEMOCRACY but a COMMERCIALISED
ENTITY that more than less rules each individual enclave of citizens.

Commercialised, by being addicted to the empty promises most giant corporations
make in lieu to appease their INVESTORS.

JESUS recited this axiom, YOU CAN NOT SERVE GOD and MAMMON.
And the same can be said about GOVERNMENT, who often prefer the favor of business
for the short term forgetting the citizens in the LONG TERM.

pax
2010-05-10 08:43 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
Hi brmicke,

You wrote, "The Second Coming is the arrival of Christ in the life of the believer."

That is salvation, not the second coming. The first advent of Christ to the earth was literal and visible. The same language is used for the second advent. It will be a literal return. We don't know when, but we can read the signs of the times, and it seems it is near, but "near" is a relative term. It could be today, tomorrow, ten years, or even more.

MrWonder

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