Displaying all 12 Forum Posts

The Banana: The Atheist Nightmare

2010-04-07 01:31 PM

ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts: 197

I wanted to open a discussion about Ray Comfort’s suggestion that the banana is the atheist worst nightmare. I know this has been around a while now and as such has been thoroughly criticized and critiqued… But I wanted to get other people’s opinions on it.

If you haven’t seen the video, I’ll post it below.

Here is a rebuttal to the video as well:

Does anyone agree with Ray’s views?

2010-05-08 11:15 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226

Hi,

I thought Ray's video to be quite cute.

I agree with Ray's views that God designed and created everything, if that's what you're asking.

MrWonder

2010-05-10 01:49 PM

ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts: 197

Calling it cute made me smile :)
(just because I hadn't heard to anyone refer to it as that before)

So do you think that his agrument is sound?

His statements are based on "facts" that aren't true....

I don't believe that this argument should change or even be a factor in anyone's decision to believe.

This was even passed out in flyers titled "Atheist Nightmare" and used as a recruiting tool for churches....

2010-05-10 04:58 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226

Hi Christy,

You asked if I think his argument is sound. Do you mean do I think God designed bananas? If that is what you are asking, I think He designed everything. If I were painting a painting, I would "design" everything in the painting. I wouldn't expect it to paint itself. Oh, that sounds like a dumb example. I'll just say I believe design is apparent in what we call nature, and design requires intelligence, so I believe God as Creator designed and made everything that exists.

MrWonder

2010-05-11 10:09 AM

logos235
Englewood, FL
Posts: 11

The Argument from design does appear to be very convincing but it is not perfect and fails when we consider the complexity of the so called creator or "designer." This being must be more complex than the creation just like the painter is more complex than the painting. Therefore there must be a meta creator and so on ad infinitum.

What if the Universe were infinite? This would mean that there was infinite space leading to infinite time leading to the conclusion that if a thing can happen than it must happen, over and over again. Kirk Cameron was nothing more than a hack actor and now he has reinvented himself as religious zealot and his "atheist nightmare" is nothing compared with "Neitzsche's Demon." Paraphrased,what if you were visited by a demon who told you, you must continue to relive this life over and over again, just as you always have, every detail the same. Would you rejoice or despair?

2010-05-11 05:36 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226

logos235 Wrote:
The Argument from design does appear to be very convincing but it is not perfect and fails when we consider the complexity of the so called creator or "designer." This being must be more complex than the creation just like the painter is more complex than the painting. Therefore there must be a meta creator and so on ad infinitum.

What if the Universe were infinite? This would mean that there was infinite space leading to infinite time leading to the conclusion that if a thing can happen than it must happen, over and over again. Kirk Cameron was nothing more than a hack actor and now he has reinvented himself as religious zealot and his "atheist nightmare" is nothing compared with "Neitzsche's Demon." Paraphrased,what if you were visited by a demon who told you, you must continue to relive this life over and over again, just as you always have, every detail the same. Would you rejoice or despair?

The argument from design is proof enough for me. I have a wristwatch on and it has a creator (maker). I don't see any failure in it.

I agree the Creator is more complex. I understand your ad infinitum comment, but God IS as far back as we can go. The finite cannot encompass the infinite. The brain can't absorb it. We can say it, but we cannot comprehend it.

What do you mean, "What if the Universe were infinite?" Do you mean time or its size? Or both? Why "must" anything happen if there is no mind behind it? What does Kirk Cameron's former profession have to do with anything?

If I were visited by a demon, I would send him away in the power of the Lord Jesus. It would not matter to me what he told me. I'm not brand-new at Christianity. I have been a Christian for a few years now and I've thought a lot of things through.

Christianity makes sense to me. I'm not sure I can express it better than that, but I am an intelligent and logically-minded person. I don't like things that don't make sense to me, and Christianity satisfies my mind and my heart.

Thank you for the thoughts and the questions. I look forward to pleasant conversation.

MrWonder

2010-05-12 02:29 PM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

I think what Christy is asking is "Does the mere presence of a banana prove the existence of God like the man in the video says it does?" And the answer is clearly no. There is no 'proof' of God. If there was proof, people would not need to blindly and faithfully believe in God because they were told by someone else or by a book. The existence of God is not clear cut with evidence to support the idea, like the theory of gravity or the theory of evolution.

The existence of God is proven by the existence of a banana. That would be a straw-man agruement. It is far more likely, based on evidence that the banana exists through millions of years of natural selection.

2010-05-12 02:44 PM

ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts: 197

Thanks for clarifying for me Zach... that is what I was getting at.

2010-05-12 04:55 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226

Hi Zach, and Christy,

I think the existence of anything at all proves God's existence. No, I don't think it all depends on a banana. I think it depends on the fact of our own conscious, self-aware minds and the entire universe around us. Millions of things that are designed just right, amazingly. Existence itself verifies God to me. Then the question is "Which God?"

It is true that we come to God on faith, but not on blind faith. Someone said, "To those who believe, proof is not necessary, but to those who do not believe, no proof is sufficient."

I believe my existence and the existence of the universe prove the existence of God beyond the shadow of any doubt. I believe the Bible itself provides sufficient proof for the existence of the God of Israel and of Christianity.

In fact, I truly believe it requires FAR MORE blind faith to not believe in God than to believe, and I do not have that much blind faith. I can believe in a Designer who designs and a Maker who creates, but I am cerebrally incapable of believing in things that bring themselves into existence.

In fact, I cannot understand how God has always existed, without a beginning, but at least my mind is capable of admitting that that is the only reasonable and logical explanation. I cannot conceive of impersonality existing on its own without a Creator, and doing so eternally. My faith is smaller than yours. I have to have something that makes sense to my mind, because blind faith does not work for me.

:-)

MrWonder

2010-09-07 03:47 AM

archaeologist
Seoul, South Korea
Posts: 79

natural selection does not exist. many things can be altered genetically but that is not evolution in action but God's handiwork as He placed flexibility in His creation. now we know that sin and corruption entered into the world which wrecked havoc on God's design but it did not destroy that design just altered some of the results.

people mistake these reactions as evolution but they are not, such people just do not want to humble themselves before God an dbe His servant. they want to create their own past and future inhopes of avoiding the truth and to justify their decision to live a sinful life.

there has not been one evolutionary experiment done yet.

2010-10-18 11:26 PM

Svantevit
Krasnoyarsk, Russia
Posts: 1

archaeologist Wrote: natural selection does not exist. many things can be altered genetically but that is not evolution in action but God's handiwork as He placed flexibility in His creation. now we know that sin and corruption entered into the world which wrecked havoc on God's design but it did not destroy that design just altered some of the results.

people mistake these reactions as evolution but they are not, such people just do not want to humble themselves before God an dbe His servant. they want to create their own past and future inhopes of avoiding the truth and to justify their decision to live a sinful life.

there has not been one evolutionary experiment done yet.

Really now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment

Ahem.

2010-10-19 06:46 AM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119

Wow, that is a really interesting read. I had not heard of this experiment. Thank you.

And welcome to the website.=)