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Displaying all 15 Forum Posts for the Thread:

Are the Christian Militia Hutaree not unlike Islamic Jihadists?

2010-04-03 09:17 AM

Frank K
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 27
Those that have been following the news of the arrest of nine members of a Michigan based Christian militia group known as the Hutaree, may have missed the basis that binds this group together into action against government authorities.  Here are a few extracts from the Hutaree website, in About Us:

"We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ."

"Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment. The only thing on earth to save the testimony and those who follow it, are the members of the testimony, til the return of Christ in the clouds."

"We, the Hutaree, are prepared to defend all those who belong to Christ and save those who aren't. We will still spread the word, and fight to keep it, up to the time of the great coming."

"We believe only what the Bible says and not on only philosphy as many christians of this day do."

"The Hutaree will one day see its enemy and meet him on the battlefield if so God wills it. We will reach out to those who are yet blind to the last days of the kingdom of men and bring them to life in Christ."

According to an indictment unsealed Monday, "the militia had planned to kill a member of law enforcement and then plant an improvised explosive device to attack the subsequent funeral procession. Other possible acts included killing a law enforcement official and his or her family at home or luring a member of law enforcement with a false 911 emergency call and then killing him or her."

I cannot help but see similarities between this Christian militia and the Islamic Jihadists.  Killing and murdering people as a part of a holy war against non-believers and secular governments does not serve either religion well, and is certainly is not sanctioned by the millions who practice their faiths with repsect and tolerance for those of different faiths or non-believers.

I would be interested in others' persectives.e
2010-04-05 01:52 PM

ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts: 197

I can definitely see the similarities between these two groups. I will never understand the need for violence to enforce religious beliefs. Fear should not be the reason that any one person chooses to believe in something. (Threatening eternity in hell shouldn’t be a reason for having good morals either.)

One difference to note is a group member’s willingness to die for the cause. Seems as though Muslim activist are much more willing to die while making their point, where as violent Christian groups tend to plan things with the intention of staying alive. There aren’t many Christian suicide bombers nowadays. Well, at least not in the US.

Is this because they believe they would spend eternity in hell for killing themselves? I find it somewhat comical that they completely ignore the “thou shall not murder” section, but hold true to the part that keeps them alive.

..Am I missing something here?

2010-05-04 03:55 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
Is this not just the fallout of the millenniums of doctrinal brainwashing
that from the Catholic church on down has gripped the largess of the majority
of this faith?
Isn't this the cry one so often hears from the PULPITS these days of ministers
RAGING AGAINST the ISM called ISLAM?
And isn't the same nonsense being spewed forth from those within ISLAM
who also have never taken to the STUDY OF THEIR VAUNTED HOLY BOOK
the QURAN?

ISAIAH 5
  21Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! 

and ISAIAH 6
9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, 
but perceive not.

 10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; 
lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, 
and convert, and be healed. 

THE SAME CULTURE is present in all RELIGIONS, that of
FOLLOW THIS FALLOW RUT OR THAT BLIND BUT and do as they demand and
not as they do.  Matt 23, 3 and 13

P.V.

2010-05-04 06:57 PM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying that the Catholic Church brainwashed the Hutaree through its doctrine? And that Islamic extremists do not understand the Quran well enough? Please clarify if you can.
2010-05-05 09:18 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
WHAT I AM SAYING IS QUITE SIMPLE
THE BRAINWASHING or TREND of the INQUISITION and demonizing
anyone not of ones sect has led to all this.
Who came first? The MUSLIMS or the CHRISTIANS?
If you know that order then you'll understand that the children have
learned from our religions HISTORY, example which was often less
then EXEMPLAR.
What was the role of the TEMPLARS to start with? What was it at the end?
What was the role of the early christian CHURCH?
What had it devolved into? And is it that much closer to it's roots today
or just as far away , when under the edicts of HOLY ROME folks were
crucified, burned, jailed, murdered on mass?

IF ONE REFUSES TO LEARN FROM HISTORY< ONE IS DOOMED TO WHAT?
REPEAT IT

P.V.
2010-05-06 01:50 PM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
Christian militia groups are not like the Muslims.

Christ's command is, "Thou shalt do no murder."

The Apostle John wrote, "We know that no murderer has eternal life."

Any group that plans to murder law enforcement personnel and then kill others at the funeral is not Christian, according to Christ and His Apostles. They are phonies, fakes, and completely illegitimate.

We who are Christians are called to win the lost through our witness, not through murder. Because a person or a group calls itself Christian does not make it true. Grape Nuts has neither grapes nor nuts and Christian Science (for example) is neither Christian nor Scientific. It's a name, and a false name.
2010-05-06 02:17 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
AMEN M/W, I see you made it here
2010-05-07 07:26 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
It seems like a pretty decent place. Lots of ads, though!
2010-05-07 09:58 AM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119
PASHA Wrote:
Who came first? The MUSLIMS or the CHRISTIANS?
If you know that order then you'll understand that the children have
learned from our religions HISTORY, example which was often less
then EXEMPLAR.
What was the role of the TEMPLARS to start with? What was it at the end?
What was the role of the early christian CHURCH?
What had it devolved into? And is it that much closer to it's roots today
or just as far away , when under the edicts of HOLY ROME folks were
crucified, burned, jailed, murdered on mass?

IF ONE REFUSES TO LEARN FROM HISTORY< ONE IS DOOMED TO WHAT?
REPEAT IT

P.V.

Of the Abrahamic religions, Judaism came first, followed by Christianity about 1500 years later, followed by Islam a few hundred years after that.

The Templar's original role was to retake the Holy Land from the Moors. The issue with this is that Christianity is a pacifist religion. So the Pope issued a decree that allowed fully armed knights to essentially walk around with their swords out and defend themselves from anyone trying to interfere with their pilgrimage.  At the end of the crusades, the Templar's become a band of mercenaries for hire.

How early are you talking about when you ask about the early Christian church? For roughly the first 150 years each Christian sect would kill and torture members of other sects. After being centralized, the early Church started consolidating its power and spread Christianity around the known world.

We most of the atrocities committed by Rome we inflicted upon the budding Christian community, Rome was far from being Holy. It still followed the Pagan Pantheon of Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, etc. Nero, one of the most infamous leaders of all time, was guilty of almost every atrocity imaginable on the Christian Community. It wasn't until Constantine around 300 AD before Rome began it's 75 year conversion to Christianity and thus becoming the "Holy Roman Empire." Voltaire later quipped, “The Holy Roman Empire is not holy, Roman, nor an empire."  So if Holy Rome committed any atrocities against the Christian people, it would have been under the last one or two Pagan leaders that ruled during the conversion period.

2010-05-07 10:41 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
It is well documented that the Catholic Church committed many atrocities against Christians who were not of their (Catholic) belief system.

I love Catholics, but I tend not to see their religious belief as Christianity, but instead as an aberration and a heretical system of Christianity.

MrWonder
2010-05-07 10:41 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
P.S.

That is ONE of the reasons I feel no guilt over the Crusades. It wasn't done by what I consider Bible-believing-practicing Christians.

MrWonder
2010-05-07 11:14 AM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 119
MrWonder Wrote: It is well documented that the Catholic Church committed many atrocities against Christians who were not of their (Catholic) belief system.

I love Catholics, but I tend not to see their religious belief as Christianity, but instead as an aberration and a heretical system of Christianity.

MrWonder

True, the witch trials were certainly atrocious, along with the Protestant/Catholic wars that, in a way, are still going on to this day. But I was sticking with the early church and its years. Up until Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-Nine Thesis on the church door, if you were Christian. There was conflict from time to time though, such as when 3 Popes existed in the mid 14th century.
2010-05-07 11:20 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
Hi Zach,

You are correct. But there were also Christian groups in the "underground" from the earliest days of Christianity. Some of the more well-known were the Albigenses and Hugenots. There have always been Chrstian groups separate from the Catholic church. Protestantism didn't just start in the 16th century.

In fact, Baptists still do not consider themselves to be Protestants, as they feel their belief system pre-dates Protestantism.

MrWonder
2010-05-07 09:03 PM
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PASHA
Seattle, WA
Posts: 96
HI ZACH
TEMPLARS were originally assigned to GUARDING the PILGRIMS on their
HADJ to the HOLYLAND-CITY
See something that is very similar today among MUSLIMS who are required,
IF THEY CAN, to visit MECCA at least once in their lives

As to the early church slaughtering each other, that really is more lie-myth
than truth, for christians everyone had this SPIRIT of oneness, for they were
the OPPRESSED, by all the other religious
Only after NICAEA when the ABOMINATION of TRINITY was made into WRIT LAW
by those who were OPPOSED to the ARYAN view of SCRIPTURE
which stated GOD is DIVINELY SEPARATE from HIS Son Jesus did the 
genocide start. Before that they had heated spats-debates but the TORT
laid down @ NICAEA set the next 2 millenniums of LIES into it's place
that holds to this day..

HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS UNIQUE AND
SEPARATE OF GOD, WHO SENT Him to bring first ISRAEL back to the path-
WAY CALLED STRAIT and then when they rejected the COVENANT GIVER's SON
the CONTRACT was made retrocative to any BELIEVERS who didn't have to
be JEWISH.

ROME didn't develop until just before CONSTANTINOPLE became the FAITHS
SEAT for almost 700 years and then it was a toss up where the CHURCH EDICTS
and the SEAT of JESUS, see Matt 23
    2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
which after the ascension of Jesus fell on Pete's back and then on the next one
named to inherit the FEEDING OF HIS SHEEP

M/W, boy ye has been busy.
2010-05-08 08:30 AM

MrWonder
Medium City, TX
Posts: 226
Hi Pash,

It was a Friday and I had the time.

:-)

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